Seneca flight instructor lands on N.Y. highway

This was an article in today's Toronto Star. Good job to the flight instructor for getting this plane safely down. I've actually flown that Bonanza, SCZ, a number of times. Glad to hear everyone is ok. Reminds you why you practice your emergency procedures.

T.J. HOOKER PHOTO/THE POST-STAR

Seneca College flight instructor Michael Denning safely landed the plane he was piloting on a stretch of highway in eastern New York state on Sept. 3, 2008.

Pilot with two students lands safely after plane loses power over U.S.

Sep 05, 2008 04:30 AM

John Goddard
staff reporter


A Seneca College flight instructor with two students on board a single-engine plane over New York's Adirondack Mountains landed safely on a highway after the type of emergency "some people don't walk away from," he said last night.

Michael Denning, 24, said he glided the plane above two transport trucks 15 metres above the road after the engine died. He landed in the two northbound lanes of Interstate 87 with no injuries and no damage to the plane.

"When (the truck drivers) saw us they stopped, which helped us out because it blocked traffic," Denning said after getting off a bus in Montreal for a commercial flight home to Toronto.

"Luckily it happened when it did," said Ray Thatcher, emergency services director for Essex County. "This is a high tourist area ... but the main tourist season is behind us now and the fall foliage season isn't here yet."

"He did an outstanding job," said New York State Police Capt. Michael Girard. "It's a very mountainous region. It's not like you can find an open field."

"He set it down perfectly – dead centre," said Ryan Bessey, captain of the volunteer fire department from the nearby hamlet of North Hudson, N.Y., 150 kilometres north of Albany.

The students, both in their third year of a four-year program, are not being identified "to protect their privacy," said Dominic Totino, head of Seneca's School of Aviation and Flight Technology.

Denning was leading a training exercise at about 4:30 p.m. Wednesday, with one student at the controls of a single-engine Beechcraft F-33 Bonanza, seating four, owned by the college.

The idea was to fly from Buttonville airport to Burlington, Vt., on a flight that involved crossing into U.S. airspace, customs clearance and flying over hilly terrain.

They heard a clicking noise from the engine – "not something I've ever heard before," said Denning, a recent course graduate who began instructing last year.

The gauges showed nothing wrong. A minute later, a loud bang and loss of power prompted Denning to seize duplicate controls.

Below he saw mountains, trees and water. Then he saw the highway. At 1,200 metres (4,000 feet) the motor failed completely and the propeller stopped. He radioed a mayday call and touched down.

"It was a surreal feeling afterward," Denning said. "We were just standing there (outside the plane) making a few jokes."

Northbound traffic was rerouted for several hours until the plane was pushed to a crossover on the median of the divided highway, where it remained overnight.

Two U.S. Federal Aviation Administration inspectors arrived early yesterday to investigate the cause of the engine failure, an FAA spokesperson said.

Seneca's maintenance workers are all professionals, not students, Denning said.

"We've had these planes since 1992 and never had any engine issues with them," said department head Totino.

"They followed the way they were taught to land for emergency procedures," he said.

UPDATE:

Here are a few photos posted on AvCanada by one of the students involved

Refreshing

It's been a rough couple of weeks for the Aviation Industry. What seemed like boom times has come to a sudden stop with the increasing price of fuel and Air Canada's announcement that it's going to cut up to 2000 jobs. Kind of depressing actually. Although in my book I always suggest that people considering becoming a pilot should have a good back up plan, when you look at all the doom and gloom forecasted for the industry, it's tough to even suggest that people should consider becoming a pilot.

Luckily, I read Ramiel's post at Pilot's Discretion about his very first flight. It was refreshing to read. I remember back to my first flight, the butterflies in my stomach, the shear exhileration of my first take-off and the high after landing and trying to figure out how an hour went by so quickly! There is something beyond words that describes the freedom of flight.

Ramiel's a student at Seneca College. At Seneca, you generally have to wait a year before you actually start the flying portion of the program. While this might be a drawback of the program, it also makes the taste of that first flight that much sweeter.

There are uncertain times ahead for the aviation industry. The old economic model of airlines doesn't seem feasible if the price of gas keeps rising. But that in and of itself should not discourage someone from being a pilot. It should force anyone considering becoming a pilot to take a long hard look at the realities of the job and the high price of oil, but it should also be weighed with the thrill of that first flight and the indescribable satisfaction of piloting an aircraft.

Question - Re: University Degrees for Pilots

I received a question from a reader the other day:

Hey! I am looking into getting into the industry. My question is do you suggest getting a university degree these days on top of everything else? My mom works for Air Canada so she knows many pilots and many have told me that having a university degree makes you a lot likelier of landing a job with a major airline.

Getting a university degree en route to becoming a pilot is a tough decision. I don't think that there's an overwhelming right or wrong answer and what will work best for a person depends on a number of factors.

Major Airlines, specifically Air Canada, use a 'points' system when determining who they will interview. Points will be awarded based on education, flying experience (both hours flown and type of aircraft those hours were acquired on), language proficiency, work experience, leadership qualities etc. I do not know how many points get awarded for each category.

About 8 years ago now when I was just finishing my training, I was able to meet the pilot hiring coordinator for Air Canada. When I asked if she had any tips, her response was "get a degree." What I have heard however, is that a university degree is granted the same number of points as a diploma from a recognized Aviation College such as Confederation, Sault College or Mount Royal. This is not confirmed though.

Even for Air Canada, having a degree will not automatically get you a job at an airline. It is also imperative to have a lot of flight experience. Depending on about a million different factors, when you're done your training, it will generally be 5 to 10 years before you have the experience to be hired by Air Canada. Even though their stated minimum hour requirements are 1000 hours, most successful candidates have at least 2000 hours, with most having more.

Having a degree will also not really help you in getting your first flying job. Operators that hire low time pilots generally don't care if you have a college diploma or a degree, rather, they want to see that you have a good attitude and can work hard. Having some work experience, being in the right place at the right time and making good connections will all help in finding the first flying job.

I am a proponent of getting a degree. I think that having a degree (or two) will open a lot of doors in life when combined with experience. It not only opens up options outside of aviation if you lose your medical or get laid off, it allows you to possibly move into management roles within an airline later on. I also think that taking some time to go to school and enjoy the 'university experience' is a benefit to every one. It gives people a couple years to grow up and learn responsibility. Obviously, not everyone needs this though. Though I personally have really enjoyed my university experience.

On the other hand, there are people who don't really think it is worth getting a degree if you want to be a pilot. Their point of view makes sense and I do believe that getting a degree isn't right for everyone.

Getting a degree, whether it is in conjunction with your flight training at schools such as University of Western Ontario, Waterloo, Seneca College or University College of the Fraser Valley or separately, usually takes 4 years and can be quite expensive. During this time, you generally don't do much flying. If however, you did you flight training independently through a local flight school or through a shorter, 2 year college program, you would be finished your training a lot quicker and out flying sooner. Once flying, most pilots building experience can get anywhere between 500 and 1000 hours a year and be earning money at the same time. Most airlines hire pilots with between 2000 and 4000 hours of experience and the quicker you're out flying, the sooner you'll have that experience.

Of the pilots that I know that are working at Air Canada, some have degrees and some do not. I know pilots who have been hired on at Air Canada Jazz both with and without a degree or Aviation College Diploma. I know pilots working for WestJet, some of whom have a degree and some don't. I know a pilot with an Economics Degree, lots of turbo-prop and jet Captain experience who was turned down by Air Canada but is working at WestJet. I also know a pilot who has two degrees that was turned down by Jazz.

So, as you can tell by the somewhat rambling response, there is no right or wrong answer.

Things to consider:

• Are you the type of person that likes education?


• What is your financial situation like?


• Are you ready to jump into the work force, or will a couple of years at university or college be good for you?


• What are the options of flight schools, colleges or Universities near where you live?

The main thing to know though is that getting a degree from a particular school will not guarantee you a job at an airline or let you skip the generally low paying, not glamorous first few years of flying.

Seneca College Aviation

In my book, So, You Want to be a Pilot, Eh? I outline the general pros and cons of doing your flight training through a traditional flight school as compared to an Aviation College or University program. What I don’t outline are the pros and cons of specific College and University Aviation Programs. The reason for this was two fold: first, there are a large number of different programs and outlining them in a book would take up a lot of space and second, the programs are often changing and the information in a book would be out of date before the book even hit the shelves. On this blog however, I will attempt to touch upon different attributes of some of the aviation programs at Canadian Colleges and Universities.

If you have a particular program that you would like information on, please send me an e-mail and I will attempt to find out information about that particular program. As well, I would very much appropriate any readers who have attended various College or University Aviation Programs to send me an e-mail and share your experiences about your particular college.

This entry will be about my Alma Mater – Seneca College.

Seneca College’s Aviation Program was the first Community College Aviation Program in Canada and the program has been around for almost 40 years. In 2003, after the Ontario Government permitted Colleges to grant degrees for certain programs, Seneca switched it’s 3 year Aviation and Flight Technology Diploma to a 4 year Bachelor’s of Applied Technology Degree. It is a subsidized program (so are Sault College and Confederation College), however, with the switch to a degree, the overall price has increased and although it is less expensive than most combined flight training and degree programs, it is more expensive than the other subsidized programs in Ontario.

Here are some things to consider:

Fleet: While it is debateable, in my opinion, Seneca has, by far, the best fleet of training aircraft in Canada. The fleet consists of 7 new Cessna 172s, at least one of which has a full screen Garmin moving map display, 5 F33A Beechcraft Bonanzas and 2 Beechcraft B58 Barons. There are also 4 sophisticated simulators - 1 each for the 172, Bonanza and Baron and a Level 5 Bombardier CRJ 200 Regional Jet Simulator. While I am not sure about the newer simulators, when I was there, students had unlimited free access to these simulators. Free access to these simulators not only allowed students to practice their IFR and emergency procedures as much as they wanted, 25 of these hours can be counted towards the ATPL.
Seneca's Fleet

The CRJ 200 Sim

Location: Seneca is the closest full college, subsidized program to Toronto. This can be a good thing and a bad thing for both student life and flight training.
Buttonville Airport - East of Hwy 404 and just North of Hwy 407

For Student Life, if a student is from the Toronto area, there is the potential to live at home and commute to school. This is what I did. While it made for not quite as fun a College experience, it definitely ended up being cheaper in the long run. However, for students from outside of Toronto or who don’t want to commute, living in or near Toronto can be quite expensive. As well, due to the location of Buttonville airport, it is necessary to have access to a car as public transit to the airport is almost non-existent.

For flight training, it can be very beneficial to get used to working in some of the busiest airspace in Canada. While it’s a lot to take in at first, getting comfortable dealing with lots of traffic, different radio frequencies and different types of air traffic can improve your multi-tasking skills. On the other hand, it can make for a more stressful initial learning experience. Sometimes dealing with lots of different traffic when you’re just starting out can be quite overwhelming. Training in areas with less traffic can allow you to focus on the basics without having to worry so much about busy airspace. Personally, I enjoyed flying in that area, but I know others who would have preferred flying in a less busy locale.

Program Academics: As mentioned, Seneca’s program is now a 4 year Applied Degree. It includes a Co-op requirement and students are also required to maintain a minimum C+ in each course in order to continue on. Unlike when I went through the program, there is no longer a ‘cut’ after the first year where a certain amount of students are required to withdraw if they were not in the top 37.

I am a strong proponent of having a degree. However, one thing to keep in mind with Seneca’s Degree is that because it is an Applied Degree, it may not be afforded the same respect as a traditional Bachelor’s Degree from a University. If someone decided that they wanted to continue on in their education and complete a Master’s Degree or a professional degree such as Teacher’s College or Law School, depending on the school they’re applying to, they may or may not be accepted. I’ve been hearing stories that while some Universities gladly accept an Applied Degree as equivalent to Degrees from a University, other Universities refuse to accept these degrees.

I have mixed views about the Co-op program. While getting experience in the industry is always beneficial, from what I’ve been hearing from current students, the program itself is not quite as well structured as one would hope and for the most part, students have to find the employment themselves. There have been a range of positions, many of which are simply working the ramp with local airlines. This can be good in the fact that you gain experience and connections, but in the context of flight program, it might be more beneficial to get the flying done first so you can get into the industry quicker.

However, having students work prior to graduating may help to decrease the assumption of the Seneca ‘attitude’ –more on that shortly.

Program Expenses and Time: Tuition expenses work out to roughly $10,000 a year. Tuition per semester is roughly $3500 and you also spend a summer semester flying. While $40,000 for a 4 year Degree is not cheap, compared to the regular cost of flight training or a degree program, this is a real bargain. However, when you compare this to the other two subsidized Ontario Colleges – Confederation and Sault College, their total costs are significantly lower due to the fact that they are still Diploma programs and the actual length of the program is shorter.

4 Years is can be a long time to do all your flight training. I felt that a 3 year program was still a little too long, adding on an extra year is another year that you could be flying and getting experience in the industry. There are many pilots who feel that the best thing to do is get your training done as quick as possible so you can be out in the industry getting experience. If someone rushed through their training in a year or two, then worked the ramp for 6 months to a year, they could still have 2000 hours in the same time it took to complete a 4 year degree.

I think having a degree, other education and a College experience are all very important things, but for someone who wants to get flying as quick as possible, Seneca is probably not the best choice.

Jobs: Overall, Seneca has a very good reputation in the industry in Canada. It is a well established, comprehensive program that airlines respect. Having a Seneca Degree will bode well for when you have enough experience to be applying to Airline jobs such as Air Canada. That being said, many of the other established Aviation Diploma programs in Canada are afforded that same respect. As well, having a Bachelor Degree in another discipline can also be valuable.

At the lower levels of the industry, a Seneca Degree will not necessarily help you get a job. In fact, there are a number of ‘bush’ types who feel that Seneca graduates are all ‘city kids’ who don’t know how to do a solid day’s work. Some graduates with an attitude have tainted the reputation. While I will be the first to admit that I have met a few grads who think that they are God’s gift to aviation, I’ve also met numerous other pilots (not from Seneca) who have that same attitude. The vast majority of my classmates and other Seneca grads I’ve met have been awesome folks. If you do graduate from Seneca, just be aware that you may need to go that extra step to prove that you’re not a jerk and you can put in a good day’s work.

The fact that Seneca’s program has been around for so long means that it has a lot of alumni working at many different airlines across Canada and the World. Having this type of networking possibilities can be very beneficial.

Finally, Air Canada Jazz tried a pilot program last year where top grads from Seneca and a number of other colleges were interviewed and successful candidates were offered spots in ground schools for potential First Officer positions. This program is not without controversy and it remains to be seen if it will be successful.

Conclusion: I enjoyed my time at Seneca and they really do have a great program. The fleet is great! In fact, you likely won’t fly on such nice and well maintained planes for a number of years when you actually start working! For students that want a degree, want to live near Toronto and want to get first rate flight training, Seneca is a great choice!